Tag Archives: Debate

Post Hoc and the Good Person Question

Lorena had a great question on her blog last week. For those of you who aren’t interested in following the link, she has a friend who said the following and she wanted to know how other non-theists would respond to it:

I had a classmate in high school. He was a pastor’s kid and did all the right things. He was courteous, loving, kind, friendly, etc. If religion can make a person like that, then I see nothing wrong with religion.

Here’s what I would say:

  1. That sounds post hoc. There are wonderful and terrible people in every religion. That doesn’t mean that one causes the other.
  2. Are some individuals influenced to become better human beings by their beliefs? Of course.
  3.  I’ve also seen some people’s beliefs lead them to act much less loving, kind and compassionate than they would otherwise behave.
  4. Is either phenomenon limited to Christianity? Heck no. Any group with more than one member is bound to include at least one jerk.
  5. What about people whose behaviour isn’t tied to what they believe? Some of us have (de)converted to other labels without growing horns or a halo.
  6. There’s nothing wrong with being religious. There’s also nothing wrong with not being religious. What matters is how you treat people. Everything else is neckbearding.
  7. The only time I get irritated with other belief systems is when they’re shoved into areas in which they don’t belong. See: every U.S. presidential election I can remember.
  8. Why is everyone arguing about this? Let’s all go out for lemonade and cookies instead. My treat. 🙂

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The Problem with Food Drives

This was originally published on December 13, 2010. I’ve been sick the last few days but should  have a new post written for Thursday, September 27.  – Lydia

From a recent poster at our apartment building about a food drive that the office staff hosts every December:

“not all families and their children are as fortunate as we are….”

Fortunate. Now there’s a word. Before I proceed any further of course it’s good to donate to charity and share with people who don’t have enough food, clothing or other necessities. This is one of the most vital pieces of our humanity. Without it we’re not fully human.

However I do have a problem with the way that altruism is presented this time of year. I’ve spent a fair amount of timetyping and retyping this paragraph in an attempt to boil down my objections into several neat sentences. The picture on your right explains part of it. Helping the less fortunate, whatever else it may be, is a one-way street:

They need.

We have.

They receive.

We give.

January rolls around again….and we forget?

There’s no longterm relationship there, no sense of the myriad of ways in which each one of us has been, is or will be an unfortunate in one way or another. There’s also no understand of how an unfortunate can be charitable to us.

It also ignores the people behind the amount of fortune carried by every one of us. As a child my family was for several years what this poster called unfortunate. That is, we lived in a trailer park for a few of them and money was so tight that it squeaked, groaned, all but completely unravelled between paycheques. On paper it would have appeared that our parents barely had the funds to support themselves much less look after their three young children.

Yet to define those years by how much we did or did not have misses the mark entirely. Even in the most difficult times in life no one can be defined solely by that with which they’re struggling. We weren’t the numbers in our bank account or the food in our fridge. We were people first. And second. And third.

Yes, I know I’m taking this pretty seriously. There’s no doubt in my mind that those who organize food drives mean nothing but the best and I’m grateful for all of their hard work and personal dedication to the well-being of strangers.

I just cannot be ethically comfortable with an economic or social system that separates us so thoroughly that entire social classes become abstractions. Charitable donations and annual food drives are a good temporary fix; building reciprocal relationships with other human beings and transitioning the way we think about others from that anonymous group of people to my good friend is how we’re actually going to begin to help people step out of tough situations (or to stop stereotyping, demeaning or dismissing people who need help) in the first place.

One More Problem

I’ve thought about it for a few weeks now and still cannot figure out how I would reword this:

not all families and their children are as fortunate as we are….

in such a way that it removed the barrier between those who are donating or offering help and those who are accepting the assistance of others. There must be a good way to communicate this shift in perception on a food drive poster. I just don’t know what that way would look like or how best to translate it into something snappy.

Respond

What do you think? Can you come up with a better way to communicate the need for donations without creating this separation between the unfortunate and the rest of us? Is it even something one should be concerned with when creating something like a poster that is not intended to be a treatise on this subject?

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Is Positive Thinking a Religious Cult?

Picture by Bryan Derksen.

Recently someone found this blog by typing this question into a search engine. Today I thought I’d answer it with another question :

How do they respond to hard times?

That is, imagine telling someone you know who believes in positive thinking that you’ve just been diagnosed with cancer, are a victim of abuse or have been laid off.  How would they react?

If they blame you in any way for what happened or infer that you can prevent it from happening again if you think the right thoughts, run! This is not an emotionally healthy response to suffering and their lack of critical thinking may be a sign that this individual is involved in a cult or a cult-like organization.

If they offer practical assistance or comfort you, relax.

The bottom line is that it depends what one means when we talk about positive thinking. I know people who use this term in place of words like optimism or hope. They believe that our outlooks on life influence what happens to us (and I agree with them that a good attitude is vital) but acknowledge that not every bad experience can be avoided.

Other people treat positive thinking as a magical talisman against misfortune and blame the victim when an act of nature or the horrible decision of another human being harms them. These people may or may not be involved in a cult but they should be avoided at all costs.

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You Don’t Have to Like Everyone

Painting by _bobi bobi.

Recently a friend and I had a conversation about the difference between treating others with respect and liking them as people. My friend was worried about disliking someone they knew for what I consider to be quite valid reasons.

I reassured my friend that it’s ok not to like everyone you meet.  After all, friendship isn’t a synonym for being friendly.

Friendship is reciprocal. I can’t be your friend if you’re uninterested in being mine and the only way the relationship can be sustained is if both of us put effort into it.  It doesn’t matter how much two people have in common as long as both of them are emotionally invested in the relationship and trust one another.

Friendly behaviour is a one-way street. Treating others with the respect, kindness and common courtesy everyone deserves has nothing to do with what you actually think of them or how they treat you. It’s simply good manners to treat other people with the care you’d want them to show you.

Every one of us has no doubt liked some of the people we meet more than others. With seven billion other human beings running around this planet there’s bound to be a few that don’t appeal to you for many different reasons – a personality clash,  value systems that don’t mesh well together, or incompatible interests.

I don’t know where the idea came from that we are obligated to like everyone but I don’t see anything wrong with acknowledging how we really feel as long as those emotions are not used as an excuse to be rude.

Respond

What do you think?

 

 

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Can You Trust Your First Impressions?

“I like him,” I told Drew. “Something tells me he’s trustworthy and a good man.”

The individual in question was someone to whom I’d just been introduced. We shook hands, said hello and that thirty-second interaction deeply impressed me. I know almost nothing about this person and yet I liked him immediately.

This snap judgement made me wonder about the accuracy of first impressions. Can they be trusted? How much weight should a first impression be given? Should a bad vibe about someone be given more weight than a good one?

We’ve all met others people who come across as warm, kind and trustworthy only to discover their true personalities as we get to know them better. Some folks excel at meeting new friends but have trouble maintaining healthy relationships over the long term.

And I know more than a few people who may not make a great first impression but turn out to be wonderful once you’ve interacted with them for a while. They might be socially awkward, distracted by difficult life circumstances or live with mental illnesses that make it more difficult for them to open up right away.

Occasionally someone I meet will give me a case of bad vibes. I brushed away those feelings once a long time ago and quickly regretted it. I don’t have a rational explanation for why some people set off my internal alarm but I’ve learned to pay attention to it. More recently there was a time several years ago when I was about to board an elevator behind two men. They were perfectly ordinary looking guys but as soon as I lifted my foot to step into the elevator something felt off about the situation.

I suddenly wanted to be anywhere on this planet other than a confined space with two strange men. A part of me thought, “Don’t be silly! They guys haven’t done anything suspicious and it’s only a five minute ride to your floor.” The doors began to close. I backed out of the elevator and stood in the hallway feeling a little foolish.

When the next elevator arrived the feeling has disappeared and I went home in peace. I’m not a superstitious person and I was probably over-reacting….but I’ve never regretted waiting for that next elevator.

Respond

How much emotional weight do you give first impressions? Has your first impression of someone ever been completely inaccurate? Has it ever been 100% correct?

 

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Three Questions About Earth Hour

This past Saturday millions of men, women and children turned off the lights to observe something called Earth Hour.

I first heard about this phenomenon a few years ago. It’s a nobel idea but I have a few questions about how it works:

1) Why are we focusing on what individuals consume when most waste is created by structural inefficiencies and large corporations? Recycling one glass bottle or turning off that light is meaningless if you don’t overhaul the system. It isn’t easy to change public policy, of course, and it isn’t something one does by sitting in the dark for an hour…but it’s the only way anything is actually going to improve.

2) Is technology evil? I find it kind of odd that Earth Hour is about not using technology. A lightbulb (or any other manmade item) is just a tool. Yes, they can be misused but they aren’t inherently “bad”…or “good”! It all depends on how you use them.

3) Is environmentalism a religion? Ok, so this question is a little facetious. It is odd to see so much attention paid to what one does for one hour once a year, though. How do you bridge the gap between that ritual – however meaningful it may be for those who participate –  and what people do the other 8759-8783 hours of the year?

Respond

Did you participate in Earth Hour this year? What do you think of my questions?

 

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Why Food Drives Are a Terrible Idea

All across America, charitable organizations and the food industry have set up mechanisms through which emergency food providers can get their hands on surplus food for a nominal handling charge. Katherina Rosqueta, executive director of the Center for High Impact Philanthropy at the University of Pennsylvania, explains that food providers can get what they need for “pennies on the dollar.”…

A lot of waste also occurs on the other side of the food-donation equation. Rosqueta observes that a surprisingly large proportion of food—as much as 50 percent—provided to needy families in basic boxes winds up going uneaten. When you go to the grocery store, after all, you don’t come home with a random assortment of stuff. You buy food that you like, that you know how to prepare, and that your family is willing to eat.

– Why Food Drives Are a Terrible Idea

Let’s talk about this.

If you’ve ever received food from a food bank or similar nonprofit group: what did you think of the selection of products? Was there anything you never used? If anyone in your household had/has a special diet (e.g. they had diabetes or food allergies, ate Kosher, were vegetarian/vegan, etc.) was the nonprofit group able to accomodate that?

If you’ve ever participated in a food drive: What was that experience like? Did you follow up to see if the group you donated to needed more help after the holidays? Have you ever been asked to give money instead?

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Is Voting Worth It?

Recently I voted in a provincial election. (Canadians who slept through civics class and everyone else who isn’t familiar with our electoral system, click here.)

I have such mixed feelings about it.

A vote is such a small thing.

The person I voted for is not going to win based on my ballot alone. And no I don’t discuss who I vote for online. Sorry 😉

That may happen occasionally in small communities but places like Toronto never count on that one last vote to sway the fates in favour of a certain candidate or issue.

If I hadn’t voted the election would still have turned out exactly like it did. A single vote cannot sway the outcome.

 

On the other hand, activists like Emily Davidson and George Lee died.

Dead.

Gone.

Permanently.

Why? Because women and everyone on this list were either forbidden or strongly “discouraged” from voting.

Go skim through that list. I’m having a difficult time coming up with more than a couple of people I know who don’t fit into one of those groups.

A hundred years ago women weren’t allowed to vote. Fifty years ago African Americans were routinely disenfranchised.

I’m not saying the system is perfect. Discrimination and prejudice definitely still exist. But it is a whole heck of a lot better now than it was for our grandparents.

But a hundred years, fifty years is a blink of an eye. A hundred years ago your grandparents or great-grandparents were children or young adults. Fifty years ago your parents or grandparents were kicking around even if you didn’t exist yet then.

This is where the other half of my thoughts tumble out.

How can we take these rights for granted?

Your vote is your voice. It’s one of the few times when the government (presumably) cares about what you think.

Think about screaming into the fiercest storm you’ve ever seen.

One voice scatters before the words even rumble out of your throat.

Two or three voices barely mewl.

If everyone screams, though, even the wind must listen.

 

These are my scattered thoughts.

I don’t care about who you vote for. In fact, I’d prefer this not turn into a debate about whose party makes the gods happier.

 But I do care about whether you vote and why you’ve made that decision. Please share your stories in the comments.

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The Deconversion Guide: Debates

This is the first post in a new series about the sticky situations you can get into after deconverting from Christianity. I’m hoping it will be useful for those who have recently deconverted as well as for theists who want to understand what life is like on the other side. 🙂

For new readers who don’t know my story, I was a preacher’s kid. My brothers and I grew up in a fairly sheltered home. One brother and I were home schooled by our stay-at-home mom for the first few years and our exposure to secular books and music was pretty limited. As a young adult I gradually deconverted and currently identify as Agnostic.

Today’s topic: debates.

As soon as it becomes widely know that you’re not (or no longer) a Christian there will be those who will want to argue religion with you.

Here are three things to consider as you decide whether or not to engage them:

1. Do you enjoy debating?

I don’t like it but I have friends who do! There are no right or wrong answers here. It’s as ok to love a fiercely friendly argument or correcting misconceptions about us as it is be ambivalent of or dislike this sort of thing.

Keep in mind, though, that you are not responsible for the stereotypes others believe about you. Taking the time to educate other people is great but it’s never something you’re obligated to do.

 2. What do you hope to accomplish?

Sometimes debates (on any topic) turn into this:

Keep your goal in mind as the conversation flows, though. It’s easy to get sidetracked by arguments that won’t actually change anyone’s mind or enrich the debate. This leads me to my last point…

 3. Why are you doing this?

Some people debate for the fun of it, others because they like the competition or want to convince the other person to switch beliefs.

None of these are bad reasons but a mismatch can sour a conversation (or even a friendship). Someone who debates for the fun of it could easily clash with someone who feels morally obligated to convert everyone else to his or her beliefs.

Respond

Non-theists: Have I missed anything? Is this something you do regularly?

Everyone:  Do you enjoy debating your beliefs with people who do not share them? If you like it at least occasionally how do you decide when to do it?

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When Is a Topic (in)Appropriate?

Recently someone stumbled across On the Other Hand by googling this question:

What topics are off limits for most people to express?

A contentious debate with a friend who is firmly lodged on the other side of a controversial issue can be absolutely acceptable while bringing up something as ordinary as what someone else is eating or wearing could be emotionally abusive.

The question isn’t what we discuss but how and why we bring it up. In general:

Avoid sore spots. It isn’t possible to avoid every topic that could potentially be painful or offensive, of course, but I usually refuse to engage in hot button debates on religion, politics, reproduction or sexuality with people I don’t know well. The appropriateness of these topics can vary quite a bit based on your surroundings and the individuals involved, though.

Have an escape hatch. Sometimes a conversation gradually steers into subject matter that is uncomfortable for one or more of the participants. Always have a backup question or comment in mind. It could be a running joke, an anecdote, thoughts on a recent movie or book, or something else entirely.

Don’t assume they agree. When I was a Christian it was frightfully easy to fall into the belief that everyone else in my small town shared my convictions. There were a few times when this assumption went over like a lead balloon. Despite having nothing but good intentions I ended up annoying people I really cared about by assuming what they believed instead of asking them.

Make sure you’re ready for the truth. It’s ok to ask almost any question if you do it politely and are ready to accept whatever answer is given. It doesn’t bother me to be asked, “Are you going to have kids?” Being pressured or preached to about the choices I’ve made has damaged more than one friendship, though.

(Picture credit – Laura Bassett, et al.)

Respond

How would you answer this question?

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